11
Jul
Proudly African AND Native American – Really?
How many times have you heard someone say – or maybe you’ve even said yourself, “I’m half Cherokee;” “I’m three-quarters Navajo on my mother’s side;” “I got Indian blood in me?” When African Americans make these claims, I wonder what the assertions are based on? Is it that high cheekbones run in their family? Was great great Big Momma’s black hair so long she could sit on it? Or is the belief that it’s more exotic to be descended from potential Indian chiefdom rather than African royalty?
I became interested in this topic most recently when in my capacity as an advisory board member for www.africanancestry.com, I was asked to reveal the DNA test results of several African American notables living in Los Angeles. In advance of the invitation-only ceremony, I learned that the DNA findings for one, linked them to Native American lineage.
Hearing the news, the organizer of the event panicked. Gina Paige, president and co-founder of www.africanancestry.com offered comfort, assuring us that “no one is ever disappointed by Native American results.”
Really?
Not doubting Gina, but curious to learn more, I conducted my own unofficial poll, quizzing people who had taken the DNA tests. Those whose results came back as Native American were not only ecstatic with the news as Gina Paige had forecast, but a number of people have been disappointed that Native American lineage was not found, but was expected.
It’s no wonder. According to several historians, most African Americans today who believe they are of Native American heritage are misled. Dr. Rick Kittles, a geneticist and co-founder of www.africanancestry.com who has performed DNA testing on over 30,000 African Americans offers, “If you ask ten African-Americans if they have Native American ancestry, eight of them will say ‘yes,’ but when we actually test them, it’s less than 10 percent.”
Interestingly, as far back as the 1920s, Dr. Carter Woodson (known as the father of Black History) posited that a third of most African Americans have Indian blood. Research since DNA genetic testing confirms that 5% of all African Americans have at least 12.5% Native American ancestry, equivalent to a great grandparent.
So, what about our storied legends who over the years have claimed dual (Native American and African) lineage: Frederick Douglass, Crispus Attucks, and poet laureate Langston Hughes, who supposedly traced his lineage back to Pocahontas? Were they misled?
(top row) from left to right: Frederick Douglass, Crispus Attucks, Langston Hughes. (bottom row) Pocahontas.
And what about you?
If you’ve always believed that you have Native American roots, you may want to take a DNA test to confirm your lineage. The results may surprise you.
Parenthetically, the person I revealed at the event in Los Angeles who was of Native American heritage on her mother’s line was not surprised. She’s proud of the legacy but anxious to now trace her paternal line and hopefully pinpoint her African roots.
If you’ve taken the test and found that you were of Native American lineage, I’d love to know your thoughts on this topic. Drop me a line at sneal@africanancestry.com. And if you haven’t yet traced your roots, there’s no time like the present. Visit www.africanancestry.com to learn how. Until then…
Amani (peace)
Stop perpetuating the negativity. Most folks are just happy to have some indication of their genetic history….whether its Native Native American or Afrikan or anything in between…the fact that you are on this site to find your lineage and yet you promote tearing each other down rather than uplifting us is pretty disheartening and I hope we’re not related…lol
Please highlight anything in my post that is negative. I do not need to “trace” my ancestry, I know it. I recognize this is not something everybody has, and am grateful for it. A friend of mine told me about this post, so I checked it out. And sure enough….the same old tune is being played here…and I thought I would help where I could. Now here is MY question. If 96% of “native american blood” stories are MISTAKEN…why are people not interested in knowing it? Are you interested in learning your REAL history, or confirming a fantasy? Even if that fantasy is at the expense of another oppressed group?
And I highly doubt we are related. To be related to somebody, you have to be able to find them on your family tree. Before my children were added, there was only one African American located on ANY family tree in our tribe. Here is her story http://naamnw.org/enewsletter/august2011.html Each and every single one of her descendants is clearly documented in our tribe, as most are tribal members. Before myself, I do not know of any of my ancestors who married an African. A cousin of mine had a child with an African American a few years before I did, and another cousin married an African a few years after I did…but other than that, no kinship is possible between you and I unless it is from our European side, which would be very removed indeed. Besides, without documented proof and citizenship, you are NOT native american, anymore than Michelle Obama is french.
“To be related to somebody, you have to be able to find them on your family tree. Before my children were added, there was only one African ”
Now that’s just plain nonsense. Many folks don’t really have a family tree in any formal sense. Certainly they don’t know who’s on it. But that hardly means they have no relatives. It just means they don’t know who they are yet.
In fact, there is no human being on the face of the earth that any other human being is not related to. And if only we had extensive enough trees, we’d know the connections. But just because you may not know them, doesn’t mean they aren’t there.
Your last statement “without documented proof of citizenship, you are NOT native american” is also wrong. No tribe has the ability to say who is or is not Native American, only who is or is not a member of that particular tribe. To use your analogy, the French may have the right to say who is a French citizen, but they don’t have the right to say who is European.
Noel, I quoted more than I intended. I don’t dispute the second sentence, only the first.
By the way, the author lumps these claims together as if they were all the same: ““I’m half Cherokee;” “I’m three-quarters Navajo on my mother’s side;” “I got Indian blood in me”. They are not. The first two claims are fairly specific — well, actually the second is impossible.
But surely there is a difference between the claim of RECENT Native American ancestry and a claim of SOME Native American ancestry, which might be rather remote. Saying that 5% of all African Americans have at least 12.5% Native American ancestry is far from saying that the other 95% have 0.
Indeed, if 5% of African Americans have the equivalent of one Native American great grandparent, it seems highly likely that many more African Americans DO have more distant Native American ancestry.
At least for me, a great grandparent would only take me back to the late 19th century. Many African American families have roots in this country that go back to the 18th century, or in some cases even to the 17th. That’s a lot of time to be able to have acquired some “Indian blood in me”.
Genbase.com has me listed as R1b for paternal european and MtDna as D which is native American so even though I’m african american I come from white male dna and female native american dna. 23andme.com still has me listed as R1 and L2 their ancestry painting has me as 84% Sub Saharan African 13.6% European 0.7% Native American 0.7% east Asian. I would also like to add that how come when African-Americans say they have native american ancestry we have to prove it but when someone white says they have it its taken at face value and 100% approved. My maternal line can be traced back to Kentucky to the late 1700 before it bacame a state when it was still part of Va.. there was a law that if the mother was black the children were slaves if the mother was white or native the children were free. The census shows my family as residents of garrard county kentucky working, living in houses owning property and even at voting age some could not read or write or even speak english from what the census log said and yes they were married we found the marriage license. If you do research look in the census records and not slave records I thought 100% I could find my family as someone’s pet or bed maiden but I’m glad what I found I can live with I’m pretty sure all of them were not so lucky… even with my % being low I know what I know. And proud of all the black red and even white blood that makes me.. me.. ancestry. Com may help a lady there helped me find my family records…..
A person with recent Native American ancestry, at least to me by my definition is up to a second great grandparent, 16 grandparents. After this going back, to a third, fourth etc is more distant.
“84% Sub Saharan African 13.6% European 0.7% Native American 0.7% east Asian.”
I guess your Native American is interpreted with East Asian as well is 1.4%? Or are you also East Asian in heritage? I also had read someplace that most African Americans test around 77% or 80% African, maybe this was with Henry Gates. I’m assuming those under 77% are more admixed or have have more recently mixed ancestry.
This is the question I have with all of this DNA testing…we are really guessing here. Are people thinking these tests are so accurate they can use it to write off someone’s ancestry in a genetic way. Are you really only 1.4% Could it be 5% or could it be zero? What is the confidence levels of these tests. You tested with 2 companies who in part gave conflicting results. People then become suspicious of people if they don’t test a certain percentage or show a certain mtDNA or paternal group.
In the end, these test are not in agreement with one another, no one is going to take them serious down the road. Who is going to ask for certified DNA test results to prove one’s ancestry. I think if you know you have ancestry and it shows, it is interesting at best.
No. You miss my point. My point is that they don’t belong to ANY tribe, either African or Native American. For one, you have to be born to a tribe to be from it. They might have ancestors who were born to various tribes, but for whatever reason, they were not raised with that tribe. I am not a descendant, I am a tribal member…meaning, I am a part of a group that lives and works together and shares common ancestry and culture. If you are not born to our family, you are not from our family, you see? My children are also tribal members…because they live here. I DESCEND from some European cultures. I am not FROM these cultures, I am NOT european. Because i am not raised there. On top of that, I have PROOF of my ancestry…most people I have ever met point to body parts and say these various body parts make them “part indian”. How crazy is THAT?
@ Gee Bee “Now that’s just plain nonsense. Many folks don’t really have a family tree in any formal sense. Certainly they don’t know who’s on it. But that hardly means they have no relatives. It just means they don’t know who they are yet.”
That completely depends on your definition of “related”. Of course ALL humans and mammals share common ancestry, shoot, go back far enough and you and I are distant cousins with rats, hamsters, monkeys and bears. You and I might be the more “closely” related mammals, but I highly doubt you can link any of your ancestors in the past 8 generations to mine, which is what -MY- culture considers “closely related”.
I will personally pay for your admittance to my tribes’ museum, where you can look at the family tree’s of our members in the archives
It is “plain nonsense” to assume that EVERYBODY is as clueless of their lineage as you are. The royal family in England, for example, has one of the most well documented family tree’s….going all the way back to rome, in some instances.
My family tree (on my native side) goes back four generations pre-invasion. Because unlike your culture, we make a distinct effort to remember the names of our ancestors. Not a difficult task, mind you. You can count to 1,000, yes? You can count to 500,000 if you wanted, yes? You have recorded at least 1,300 vocabulary words, yes? Well..what makes you think it would be soooo difficult to learn the names of your ancestors? Compared to other things we memorize in my culture (such as hours-long stories, VERBATIM) the sequential order of family members is a rather simple task. We stop it at 8 generations, however, because from that point on, ALL people are related in our tribe.
If you understood genetics and isolated genepools, you’d understand this 
“Your last statement “without documented proof of citizenship, you are NOT native american” is also wrong. No tribe has the ability to say who is or is not Native American, only who is or is not a member of that particular tribe. To use your analogy, the French may have the right to say who is a French citizen, but they don’t have the right to say who is European.”
You are confusing “Native American” with Indigenous.
Here is the thing, I don’t care for the term “native american”, because it lumps over 500 DISTINCT cultures into a homogenous mixture. According to the Federal Government, I am “Native American”, as are people from the Seminole and Creek tribes. However, I am NOT seminole or creek, and they, unlike myself, are not Suquamish. The only thing we have in common is a foreign government, ehem, YOUR government, which is representative of your peoples, acknowledges US (as in federally recognized tribes) as the indigenous peoples of the lands currently recognized as the United States. Indigenous tribes who have signed peace negotiations with them, mind you. Thats it. That is the ONLY common factor we have. I am Native American, according to United States Legal terminology, because I am a CITIZEN of a TRIBE, a tribe that has signed peace negotiations with the federal government and is recognized as a sovereign nation. Lots of people are Indigenous to North America (look at indigenous Latino groups or Canadian First Nations) and some folks could -possibly- have ancestors who were indigenous to North America before treaties were signed. That ancestry would be really, really far removed (i once did the math for a woman who had -documented- Indigenous ancestry from the 1700′s…it turned out she was 1/8,192nds Indigenous (15 generations removed) or, 0.0001% native american. This means, that same generation that she had a -single- documented Indigenous ancestor, or, 15 generations ago, she had 8,191 OTHER living ancestors of white and african ancestry also alive. So, people can boast of this distant ancestry all they want. But to be honest? 1/8192 is an extreme stretch…if you know what I mean) Yet…this ancestor did not live at a time when tribes had signed peace negotiations with the U.S…in fact, that tribe never DID sign them. They went extinct before the treaty era.
So, like you said, the French retain the right to say who and who is not a citizen of France. And YOUR government has some clear parameters as to who THEY consider “Native American”. Not my rules. They can call us whatever we want, at the end of the day, we (the real natives) self-identify and retain the right to exclude those who are not born to us, which would include every single person who has to ASK whether or not they are from a tribe. For us, it isn’t a hobby or a choice, its an irrevocable condition.
The only people that should say they are Indian is ones with a tribe. I can’t stand people that say, “I’m part Native American” and don’t know the tribe or ancestor. What is even funnier is when they show a picture and the so called Native American ancestor and the person looks Black or White. Rarely to they look remotely Native. Sort of sad.
Most Black Americans can designate a particular ancestor or ancestors, who are Native American. Often they have photographs. This commonsense evidence trumps the educated guess of any expert and of most genetic tests, which can be of unknown quality.
The human race is over 100,000 years old possibly more than 200,000. Labels like race and lineage are just tools of distraction used in combination with several others to keep you from contemplating the importance of the truth. The truth is that all humans are conscious material manifestations capable of envisioning an infinite number of possibilities, strategies and outcomes. Each and every human is a reflection of infinity; a united and focused mankind is capable of solving any puzzle in the universe. Why do you think people try so hard to keep up the separation? To keep people from realizing they can choose a reality instead of accepting the one presented to them? Because if everyone realized that they were all the same and capable of anything then several groups would lose power that they so desperately lust for. A united mankind is one of the most powerful forces in the universe. Be illuminated, be as one, be free.
I can’t understand if most African Americans have absolutely no Native American ancestry at all and if the average slave didn’t even see a Native American,then why are African Americans getting “1%” or “2% Native American or Asian” on DNA tests. Does anybody know why?
This isn’t too difficult to comprehend. The -few- people who get a 1 or two % of “native” dna on a dna analysis are of the 4% of African Americans who have Native ancestry. Ancestry is the key. This does not make them culturally, ethnically or in any way shape or form representatives of Native Americans or Native American communities. It does not entitle them to appropriate what they BELIEVE is native heritage or culture….but if they can PROVE this ancestry isn’t either mexican or siberian, and have documented proof placing an ancestor of theirs in with a legitimate native american tribe, then usually that tribe will be more than happy to share whatever info they have on that particular ancestor, and maybe give them a free tour of a museum, should they have one. Again, the problem REAL natives have with soooooooo many non-natives buying into the family rumor of having native ancestry, is that they take their rootless american cultural ideas of what “heritage” means, and use it as an excuse to appropriate, distort and exploit Native Cultures. or WORSE, misrepresent native cultures to others who have nooooo clue whatsoever that these people are merely demonstrating stereotypes and misconceptions. If you don’t have an enrollment card, you are not a representative of a Native American community. PERIOD. My kids are half black, and have enrollment cards in my tribe and are representatives of my tribal communtiy…along with some 25 other “black” tribal members we have. The different between them, and all of you? They have PROOF, are PART OF THE TRIBE, are RAISED in the tribe, and are representatives of the tribe. Another 100 +/- people in my tribe have black ancestry as well. They don’t “look” black, since its been so many generations since that first black person married into our tribe, and they don’t identify with black history and culture since they were not raised in any african american communities and have not been subjected to the same ethnic discrimination as blacks have. They are “descended” from blacks, but do not consider themselves black…does this make any sense to any of you? Google Julia Jackobs of Suquamish. She was the first black person to be married into our tribe (she was raised with the tribe from infancy and was adopted by a chief). She didn’t have a single drop of native blood and never claimed to. Anyways, we have an exhibit on her at our museum because of all the contributions she and her descendants have made to the tribe.
And photographs make EVERYBODY “look” however they WANT. It does not PROVE ANYTHING. That is the MOST ignorant thing I think I have ever read regarding genealogy.
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In response to Noel curious reasoning, which says:
“And photographs make EVERYBODY “look” however they WANT. It does not PROVE ANYTHING. That is the MOST ignorant thing I think I have ever read regarding genealogy.”
Au contraire, poor Noel. Old photographs, along with oral history, and sometimes standing alone, can often be probative of racial designation, ethnicity, and other inherited or acquired characterisitics. Photographs of one individual can be weighed with other relevant items.
Insults, frankly speaking, erode your own arguments.
Further, when one reads the history of the Dawes rolls, etc, he/she must keep in mind the purpose of those documents. The purpose was hardly to tally the number of Native Americans. As I recall, the primary purpose of the Dawes Rolls was to create a device for the distribution of land (I stand to be corrected on that statement). I find Noel’s argument misguided to the extent that he uses that document for genealogical purposes to trace who actually had Native Americans ancestors and who did not.
I think that it may be good to find and review the Vann family’s comments about the Dawes Rolls. He found that more Cherokee were left off the Dawes Rolls than were included. He also found that the Cherokee had no notion of blood quantums.
This argument will doubtlessly continue for a while. To deny the Native American ancestry of Blacks, when they and Native Americans resided in the same regions in the Southeastern regions of this country as well as other regions, seeks to revise a longstanding history.
Further, when one reads the history of the Dawes rolls, etc, he/she must keep in mind the purpose of those documents. The purpose was hardly to tally the number of Native Americans. As I recall, the primary purpose of the Dawes Rolls was to create a device for the distribution of land (I stand to be corrected on that statement). I find Noel’s argument misguided to the extent that he uses that document for genealogical purposes to trace who actually had Native Americans ancestors and who did not.
I think that it may be good to find and review a member of the Vann family’s comments about the Dawes Rolls. He found that more Cherokee were left off the Dawes Rolls than were included. He also found that the Cherokee had no notion of blood quantums.
This argument will doubtlessly continue for a while. To deny the Native American ancestry of Blacks, when they and Native Americans resided in the same regions in the Southeastern regions of this country as well as other regions, seeks to revise a longstanding history.
I drop a leave a response when I like a post on a site or if I have something to valuable to contribute to the conversation.
It is triggered by the passion displayed in the post I looked at.
And on this article Proudly African AND
Native American – Really?
Blacks hate being black.
The false notion race handicaps our great nation, especially at a time when everyone must pull together for the common good.
I know some former GIs who attended segregated schools, but who were converted to see all human beins as a single race, when demands on the battlefield required that all soldiers work together in harmony.
Al human beings are cousins to the fourth or fifth degree. How can they constitute different races? How can people be designated Black in the US and another race in Cuba, Brazil, or Morocco? How can a person be designated White here and perhaps mixed in other countries?
The designation of race is not an art, nor a science. Its nonsense. Having said that, why should anyone – regardless of his present designation (in which he had no input) – stand by idly while uninformed others are dismissive of his family’s history and culture?
Proudme you do realize that (Afrikan )Afrikaans is a West Germanic language, spoken natively in South Africa, Namibia and to a lesser extent in Botswana and Zimbabwe. It originates from 17th century Dutch dialects[2] spoken by the mainly Dutch settlers of what is now South Africa. In other words they are European. Unless of course you are from South Africa.
Also my sister in law state she is African American and Native American, turns out she is African American and Polish.
You are very dismissive. She’d be in a better position to know than you. Anyway, you offer no proof and I’d love to give her’s.
You are very dismissive. She’d be in a better position to know than you. Anyway, you offer no proof and I’d love to hear her’s.
Anyway, two professors at University College London, Mark Thomas, an evolutionary geneticist and David Balding, a genetic statistician, take serious issue with contentions that DNA tests can, with any accuracy, determine ancestry.
For those interested, see http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-21687013
Professors Balding and Thomas speak, in particular, of the difficulty of assigning one’s ancestors to an earlier time and a particular group. A short, but interesting read.
Lawandfact,
I challenge you to take a photograph, and oral history, to a local tribe and ask them to enroll you based off these two criteria
See how successful you are.
Again, we do NOT classify ethnic identity based on looks or rumors of ancestry. There are people who are DIRECTLY descended from tribal members, who have clear, concise documentation proving this ancestry who cannot be enrolled in the tribe due to enrollment requirements. SOME of these people are still community members, and in every sense that can be, are ethnically tribal members. My babysitter is one of these…she is 1/32nd Suquamish, her great-great-great grandfather was a tribal member, her great-great-great grandmother was the African lady I mentioned earlier that was adopted into the tribe at infancy. Every subsequent generation of her family married white, though ALL of them have continued living on the reservation, continuing the culture and traditions of our people, and remaining in-tact with the community. But it’s pointless for me to try to explain this to you. You are DEAD SET on trying to re-define what it means to be Native American for us. You will continue to be unsuccessful, yet are far too arrogant and ignorant and DESPERATE (and I suspect self loathing) to accept it. You are not native american. 96% of African Americans who believe these family rumors are mistaken (can’t argue with DNA buddy…it just can’t be done) and of those who ARE descended from native americans, they are still not a part of the tribal community unless they are RAISED in the tribal community. I understand to be considered black or white in this country, all it requires is “looking” a certain way. This is true for you guys. Barack Obama, a white man raised by a white family in a white community, is a PERFECT example of this “black or white, one drop rule” thinking. We aren’t so cut and dry…yet you CONTINUE to try to apply YOUR cultures’ methods of defining ethnic identity to US and OUR ethnic identity. And you fail, repeatedly. Yet are too arrogant to even realize as much.
And again, DNA aside, looks will never define tribal heritage for us. So, go ahead and repeat your family stories of a Cherokee great grandma. Go ahead and believe they are true (never mind that it is FAR more likely that your family was OWNED by somebody elses’ Cherokee great-grandma…you are not interested in honest historical information…that much is obvious) and go ahead watching movies like Dances with Wolves and thinking that you can somehow identify with the people in it (nevermind that the movie is LOADED with stereotypes). Keep at it, white people have been doing it for centuries, why not black people too? lol….Lets just all be indian. Even if just for a day, or when its convenient.
Or when you are really getting bored with your REAL ethnic heritage and want to spice it up a bit. Thats what we indians are good for, spicing up the family tree and the perceived self-image of those who want to be one of us!! (or at least the stereotypical versions of us anyways). I have yet to meet a single REAL indian who will entertain your delusions and really, really sad attempts at establishing an identity you do not have.
I might also add…in my ex-husbands culture, to be Mandinka (his tribe in Africa), you have to be BORN to a Mandinka. There is a distinct cultural difference between a typical African American and himself, because they were raised in two completely different cultures. It is likely that most African Americans have Mandinka ancestry, or Mandi, or Mandingo, but without the cultural affiliation, cannot honestly identify with these tribes. Now, I have met Mandinka people who married African Americans, and their spouses became absorbed into the culture, and their children are unmistakably from the culture. But it is not a culture one can honestly claim to be from unless they have connections to it. Does this make sense?
Name calling again. Shame on you!
As the Vanns point out, the Dawes list discouraged Blacks from applying. Of course, they woulld not accept a photo as proof and nor would I ask them to. Wilma Mankiller pointed out that 1/3 of the Cherokee were enslaved. It would probably take some digging for me to find that, but it is there. I would think that White Americans claimed to own them.
I can see that you did not bother reading the Mark Thomas/ David Balding link.but why bother. You seem to acknowledge that the Dawes list does not reflect actual ancestry. I do not claim to be tribal member, but nor will I permit you to define my lineage. I have other links lined up and ready to go. I hope that you understand that the Dawes list was initially for the allocation of lands, and not to determine who lacked Cherokee ancestry.
I respect the Cherokee tribe and their history. My ancestors were Cherokee, as were the ancestors of millions of other Americans. There is nothing unique about it. In fact, its rather commonplace. Marilyn Vann pointed out that the Dawes list was racially biased from the beginning. You cannot change history. Nor can you make the Dawes Cherokees the only descendants of the actual Cherokee.
Correction – Wilma Mankiller said that 1/3 of the Cherokee in South Carolina were enslaved.
Even though I agree to disagree with you to some extent, I respect your spirited defense of Cherokee culture and traditions. You sound like an activist and it is only through such persons that the culture and people will remain viable.
Of course, it is error to speak of the Dawes Cherokee, as there was no such group. A significant minority of my ancestors were Cherokee, not a majority – and neither am I. I give the Cherokee the same reverence that I give my other ancestral lines. While we disagree, I can see that racial exclusion is not your driving concern. I found some of your statements iluminating and others witty and deliberately humorous.
Except for a few sticky points, I think that we agree in more areas than we disagree. I encourage you in your drive to preserve Cherokee culture and traditions. These exchanges drove me to further research. Noting that we have some points of difference and apparently many points of commonalty, I thank you.
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NO. The Cherokee people DID NOT “discourage blacks” from enrolling on the Dawes Rolls. I sincerely hope you do NOT repeat this fantasy of yours. Are you really THAT delusional, that you are willing to re-write history to salivate your own desire to claim an identity you most likely do not have? Just get over it already! Your great-great grandma was NOBODY”S cherokee princess! And can you please copy and paste where I called you any names? Copy and paste, please. Your avoidance of reality is astounding…
But it all boils down to this. I hold the enrollment number, I was raised in the tribal community and above all else…I am the REAL indian here
You don’t have to agree with me…but I can comfortably say, most, if not all, other REAL indians will.
I am not asking to define your lineage. I am challenging you to be honest about it. Something I cannot understand WHY most Americans (either white or black) do not wish to do. One of the fundamental values of my tribe is honoring our ancestors. Do you think making ones’ ancestors out to be something they weren’t, for one’s own ego, is a healthy way to “honor” them?
I really could not possibly care less how you perceive my “arguments”. I am mostly posting for future people with a a stronger grip on reality who might read our exchange, and come to their senses and realize “maybe its about time my ethnic group stops exploiting native american identity”.
And I never said for sure if you are or are not descended from Cherokee’s. My point, as it has been form the beginning, is that 96% of these claims are untrue, according to genetic studies and research conducted by the Director of African American Studies at Harvard University. My second point…is that even if one is DESCENDED from a tribe (and there are more than just Cherokee), blood quantum is irrelevant. Its all about being RAISED in the tribe…if one was not raised in a tribe, they are not ethnically FROM that group, at all. Not even a little bit. I highlighted this not only with Native American tribal examples, but African ones as well.
I met Wilma Mankiller on three occasions. One of which was at the same function that I met Henry Louis Gates, Jr.
Never did I ever hear that “1/3rd” of the cherokee were enslaved. I researched it online, and nothing turned up. Another one of your historical fantasies.
Of course racial exclusion is not my driving concern. On a genetic level, race does not even exist and I am tired of people segregating based off it (and really tired of people pulling family pictures out of the closet and sizing up their ancestors based off “looks”…that seems racist to me) I am challenging people to be HONEST about their ancestry. Cultural appropriation begins with a family rumor of a Cherokee ancestor, and ends with the REAL natives no longer existing.
I believe there were a few Cherokee abducted in the colonial Carolina slave trade in the 1600s and they were sent to plantations in the caribbean.
“I can’t understand if most African Americans have absolutely no Native American ancestry at all and if the average slave didn’t even see a Native American,then why are African Americans getting “1%” or “2% Native American or Asian” on DNA tests. Does anybody know why?”
I consider significant admixture in African Americans (DNA testing) over 2%. Over 3%, now your talking. Anything under this especially 1%, can be at noise level.
Sorry, I meant to add, that African Americans testing over 2% probably have a native ancestor. I agree with Noel, you are recognized by tribe, not by just say so.
If African Americans went to Africa because a genetic test said you are *Yoruba*, they are not going to accept you, you are a stranger.
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Whenever a discussion is focusing on the bloodline of the Transatlantic slaves and we, their descendants, there will always be someone who claims we are ashamed of being black and wish we had another heritage. What profound ignorance and brainwashing you are trapped in. Many blacks are ashamed of being black. It is basically ignorance on their part. It can be excused considering how many centuries, how much time, effort, money and lies have gone into creating a culture for us, a culture hell bent on just that objective.
Any descendant of slaves who has gone outside that box to do the research and seek God already knows that culture was created because the societies we were thrown into feared our ancestors and that fear has remained to this day. And WE are not ashamed of our Ancestry.
Slavery is spoken of as if it only included [so called] African Americans. Our ancestors were scattered to the four corners of the earth, so African American is a very small scope. We are exiles not Immigrants.
DNA testing is insufficient to prove exact ancient ancestry. Even those who go to Africa and find tribes and relatives that match those results are inconclusive in my opinion. Is there even one who goes back to Egypt or the [so called] Middle East? I have not heard one report of any descendant of slaves tracing ancestry to the Middle East? Are there any? If not, why not?
As far as the Native Americans are concerned, they are natives if they are being compared to the immigrants who came later from Gentile nations across the Pacific and Atlantic. On the other hand, no one originated in the Americas since the Continent of Africa is the birthplace of all mankind. So even they need to go back further to find their ancient origins. We talk of America as if all mankind originated here. Of course we all know that is not true.
If they are just Native Americans, someone is going to have to begin explaining what it means that Paleo Hebrew artifacts are being found and been proved authentic. HEBREW? Yes. Hebrew. Also that many Black slaves claimed to be Hebrews from the 12 Tribes of Israel, which makes more sense than the people ruling Israel today being true descendants of Shemitic, Hebrew and Israelite people.
When you can get a sample of Shem, Abraham, Isaac or Jacob’s DNA then I will listen. Until then, it is just discussion, which is good, but tiresome. America is not the litmus test for anything. It is a country whose foundation is built upon lies and deceptions–not truth.
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What Noel is trying to say is that Tribal enrollment is more of a political status than anything these days. There are, indeed, full blood natives that do not meet enrollment requirements or have been disenrolled due to tribal politics and family feuding. Does that make them any less Native? No. Does it make them a tribal member? No, even though by all accounts and lineage, they are. It is not against the law to say that you are Native and have no proof, which is enrollment status in a federally recognized tribe or proof of descendency. You will most likely be laughed at and not taken seriously, though. Here are a few facts:
*DNA tests, no matter how costly or prestigious, are excepted as proof of tribal lineage for enrollment in a tribe, unless the test is done between parent and child for paternity purposes where at least one tribal member is questioned in paternity or in some cases, maternity.
*Some tribes require a minimum blood quantum ( a measure of Indian blood) to be enrolled, others (like the Cherokee Nation) require simply that you can trace your ancestry back to a member listed on the tribes census rolls. Not all tribes use the Dawes Rolls,btw. Proof is usually original birth certificates, death certificates, census lists, and sometimes sponsorship by a tribal member or a requirement that you also live on the rez for period of time.
* Some tribal members do not look like natives and some may have a very low blood quantum-it does not make them any less of a tribal member.
*Blood quantum is a test originally created by the BIA to determine tribal membership, I.e., land allotments. There were a great number of people with native blood left off the tribal rolls when treaties were signed because they did not meet the requirements set forth, which were often times harsher than the tribes own status requirements. That made it easier, with less tribal members, to buy back the land they stole and sold to natives. A lot of these lands were rich in natural resources and to do this was easy for the government with use of manipulative negotiating on a people not knowledgeable in the ways of the white world. Using usually half blood natives who knew English and were already integrated into white society, they gained the trust of their elders, for a price. True story.
* The Cherokee people had African slaves and other Tribes had sheltered slaves on the Underground Railroad. The Cherokee Nation has a roll of Freedmen, who were mostly pure African American, but were and still are Tribal members. It has been challenged in court (the membership status of Freedmen) but to my knowledge they still hold every right as other members. Even though Freedmen did not have Native blood, they are nonetheless, Tribal members.
If you suspect you have Native blood, and would be interested in finding your potential tribe, trace back from your parent, backward. Even if you don’t have Tribal ancestry, you will find cool stuff out about your family!
The myDNAmix test is back. I asked African Ancestry if they could have myDNAmix test takers have the “guess my mix” like they did last year.
It would be great if they had a contest on DNA Day,too.
I wonder what the noise threshold of myDNAmix is?
I do trust all of the ideas you’ve offered for your post. They are very convincing and can certainly work. Still, the posts are too short for novices. May just you please lengthen them a bit from next time? Thank you for the post.